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PMG is the Official Grading Service of the Paper Money Forum
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BABYSITR Show full post »
 
High Grade Rarities
A closer look and an ink smear becomes very probable

B164AB01-2DEA-4E3E-B5FF-CB38AEFA441E.jpeg 
Quote 0
larry510
I don't believe PMG knocks off points for problems. I think they grade it as if the problem didn't exist, then note the problem on the reverse.


You are correct.
Quote 0
larry510
Here's a recent example of a PMG 35 no Q.  Notice bad stains on BOTH front and back?  And more wear and tear.  Vertical and horizontal folds.  Wrinkles.  

And they gave it a 35 and didn't even comment on it.   They obviously didn't dock it 5 points for the stains either.

 If they gave something like this a 35 this national note with only three folds is definitely a 40 all day long.

20200616_003747.jpg  20200616_003801.jpg
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Timmy3939

The Notes a VF35... EPQ or not who cares.. Three solid folds and a top upper right bend off the corner..in the national world a Handily Unc is a VF35.. EPQ is the Desecration of the grader. I have some Super Smoking original notes in my personal collection and they never EPQ and they are Fresh outta Great Grandmas Cedar Chest. I have a Note with a Small Corner Chip from improper Storage on a 1882 Brown back and it EPQ'd.  You Guys are arguing over an opinion which is what the graders job is. That light staining wouldn't distract it from Straight Grading, I actually have a $5 1914 Fed with staining worse then that and it EPQ (because its original thats what they want to see). If you got 10 of us together in a room and we all handled that note silently and wrote down our opinions i would bet 80% of us would lean to the VF35 Range after having it in hand. If that note has the look and embosing of a nice unmolested original i would slap an EPQ on it no doubt, but i wouldn't send the note back because it didn't epq.

Here is an Example: I had Two Super Fresh nationals in my inventory, Dealer was Interested in them. I graded them Choice XF.. He inspected the notes and didn't agree with my grading, said he "needed them cheaper". I don't negotiate with terrorists (thats a joke you can laugh). I had the notes a few more months and i thought screw it i want to see if he sees something i don't. Sent them to PMG.  XF45 EPQ and AU50 EPQ.......Everyone's Eyes are Different, sometimes we meddle on the smallest issues when they aren't even issues at all. One thing i will say about the Silent Net Grade is its actually a Thing, I see it on Coins and i see it on Notes. Market Acceptability has allowed certain Issues to be able to Slip By silently. Blast White XF45/AU55 Bust Halves is a prime example.. Dipped out scrubbed up Dog Turds that get straight graded because the market wants WHITE coins. Now your going to start looking closer at coins if your a collector.... Next up is DIPPED UP PRESSED OUT Black Eagles... The Kinda VF25 Material made to look like AU.... They get slammed into XF Holders all day long because they "look Nice". Should these Holders say 1970s Pressed out Bleached Turds? Should NGC and PCGS Comment on Coin Holders NOT ORIGINAL PATINA. When notes and coins become so limited on the market they have to learn to let a few things slide to help create a collector market. If you where trying to collect Solid Original Problem Free everything you wouldn't have 10 items in your collection (especially national collectors).  Something Else we have Learned over time is Some of these generated "issues" aren't even Issues at all. Merely a result of its daily use in commerce and in circulation.  Ive read this thread over and over and over and i'm beside myself that We as Collectors (some of us Dealers) would question a Split Grade on a national. It Honestly Doesn't Matter when it hits the market. A Collector is going to love that note as a VF35 EPQ or a Flat 40

Quote 2
asheland
I see a 35
Quote 0
EarlySmallSizeFanatic
A note like that graded as a 35, I would cut out and throw away the holder, or send to another grading service if I wanted it in plastic. 

If left raw, I would resell raw as a 40 with a clear conscience. 

I would also buy the note as a 40 with 100 percent confidence in that grade. 

Extremely Fine 40
The old standard of "three folds makes an XF" is applicable here, as typically a thrice-folded note does indeed usually grade "40". Common sense exceptions must be made, however, as three folds that are exceptionally heavy may drop the note into a lower grade category. Notes with three folds and a couple of other minor light bends or folds may occasionally make it to the "40" grade if the extra folds are light enough and are not obtrusive to the overall appearance. A typical XF note may have a couple of pinholes, but any larger holes would prevent a note from reaching this grade. [ PCGS Grade ]

Very Fine 35
This is a "just miss" grade, comparable to the grade "About Extremely Fine" used by some companies. It represents a note that is very close to an Extremely Fine 40 but that has one or two minor faults, such as an additional light fold or two that preclude a higher grade. A "35" should have eye appeal that is well above average for a VF note. [ PCGS Grade ]

From what I can see, the folds look average, clearly not light, but could also be much heavier.

Adding: If this were 10 years ago, and if the ink / stain was not there, I could see this note POSSIBLY getting a 45.

The 1928C $5 star is over graded IMO. That note should have gotten a 30 comment, possibly even a 25. Another note I would cut and toss the holder. 
Quote 1
Dan Cong
xzczXCZCZCx.jpg I thought the center fold was a bit heavy, it wears through the engraving and divots the paper. It is a lovely note, and regardless of the numerical grade, the pen signatures really make it a great example. This is more about the technical considerations of grading then the super quality of this survivor. 
Quote 0
larry510
Dan Cong wrote:
xzczXCZCZCx.jpg I thought the center fold was a bit heavy, it wears through the engraving and divots the paper. It is a lovely note, and regardless of the numerical grade, the pen signatures really make it a great example. This is more about the technical considerations of grading then the super quality of this survivor. 


That's the difference between a 40 and a 45.  Not a 35 and 40. 
Quote 0
larry510
A note like that graded as a 35, I would cut out and throw away the holder, or send to another grading service if I wanted it in plastic. 

If left raw, I would resell raw as a 40 with a clear conscience. 

I would also buy the note as a 40 with 100 percent confidence in that grade. 

Extremely Fine 40
The old standard of "three folds makes an XF" is applicable here, as typically a thrice-folded note does indeed usually grade "40". Common sense exceptions must be made, however, as three folds that are exceptionally heavy may drop the note into a lower grade category. Notes with three folds and a couple of other minor light bends or folds may occasionally make it to the "40" grade if the extra folds are light enough and are not obtrusive to the overall appearance. A typical XF note may have a couple of pinholes, but any larger holes would prevent a note from reaching this grade. [ PCGS Grade ]

Very Fine 35
This is a "just miss" grade, comparable to the grade "About Extremely Fine" used by some companies. It represents a note that is very close to an Extremely Fine 40 but that has one or two minor faults, such as an additional light fold or two that preclude a higher grade. A "35" should have eye appeal that is well above average for a VF note. [ PCGS Grade ]

From what I can see, the folds look average, clearly not light, but could also be much heavier.

Adding: If this were 10 years ago, and if the ink / stain was not there, I could see this note POSSIBLY getting a 45.

The 1928C $5 star is over graded IMO. That note should have gotten a 30 comment, possibly even a 25. Another note I would cut and toss the holder. 


Totally agree.  Assuming there's nothing else wrong other than three folds it's a 40 all day.  Of course I would always want to look at the note in hand before making my final decision.

And yes that $5 red seal is overgraded.  I would say 30 with comment
Quote 0
Cody71086
I stand by my statement that silent netting exists:

silent net.jpg  silent net2.jpg 
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