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Samfink Show full post »
 
Samfink
jhodgson wrote:


That information may be somewhere, but records are not separated into that level of detail.  
 

Well poop. I see I've stumbled upon a tough well thought over thing here.
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EarlySmallSizeFanatic
jhodgson wrote:
I go by print dates to determine seal color.  Has not been a problem with me in all my years of collecting.


Has anyone figured out why the 1928 series $20 and above notes show LGS in July 1932, but the $5 and $10 in mid August 1932. 

The September 1932 figure seems to be out the window with the report of the $5 1928B L star LGS, and some reports of certain districts of $10 notes. 
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Jamericon
Do you have references to LGS notes numbered in July and August 1932? Heritage auctions, for instance. 
Jamie Yakes--U.S. paper money collector, researcher, and author. | Join the SPMC.
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jhodgson
I have $10 FRN 1928-B F13700152A in CU, printed/delivered  Aug 1, 1932, and it is a DGS.

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https://www.facebook.com/American-Paper-Connection-Inc-585643014808093/?ref=bookmarks
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EarlySmallSizeFanatic
Jamie, here it is. This is why I feel we need a special place on the boards for this type of data. 

https://www.papermoneyforum.com/post/1928b-dgs-to-lgs-transition-with-production-date-data-9637551?pid=1303148490&highlight=1928b+transition

Further down in the thread, I post my 1928B $10 A star in with the $20's. No the seal is not altered, as it has the classic forest green, but got the hard crease from setting many years folded in half in a wallet. It also matches the seal color on my D star which is original without hard creases. 

It would be nice to figure the difference in inks from mid July to mid August 1932. 

The 1932 era LGS notes are not really that vivid of a yellow green. I have several notes from this era, including a 1928C $10. 

I wish everything in the 1928 series was one color like the 1934 seal color change, this makes a convoluted situation even worse.
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TomTomTomTom
I don't have either a light nor dark seal note yet I'm interested in the research people have put into the topic...nice work everyone!
Always looking for high quality fractional notes, specimens, proofs, experimentals and anything fractional related
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Samfink
The point of this thread is on a right track.  I have these and thought they were all LGS except the 50.. turns out only the 100 is true lgs Click image for larger version - Name: 20200328_085012.jpg, Views: 50, Size: 1.53 MB
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EarlySmallSizeFanatic
The $10 and the $5 are also true LGS. The $20 is transitional, and the $5 is DGS.

Jim: Take a look at the link I provided in my prior post to this one. My $10 is markedly darker than the $20 printed before it in one of the posts in that link. 

The real question is why and how can / are the $20 > notes LGS a month before the $5 and $10 ???? ðŸ˜³

I owned a $20 1928B From July 09, 1932 that was a DGS, but is was really close. 
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EarlySmallSizeFanatic
gnat wrote:
Here is a note that, in my opinion (and PCGS) is a light green seal. It is also listed in the range for LGSs in Schwartz/Lindquist (and I believe that PMG as also graded notes from this run as LGS).

1928B Chic lgs.jpg 
According to BEP records, it was part of run printed July 16, 1932. Is it a light green seal. Is Mid July possibly the date of transition? Is it August or September?

I pulled the following images from HA.com which represent the above and other print runs closely following this one. The images from Heritage should be fairly consistent in color. While there is a definite increasing "yellow" as the print runs progress, it appears that Light Green Seals begin somewhere around Mid July?

July 14, 1932

1928B G19903508A.jpg 
July 16, 1932

1928B G20068919A.jpg 

July 19, 1932

1928B G20370793A.jpg 


July 24, 1932

IMG_8119.jpg

Here is the post from the other thread I was talking about. Jim H's first $10 FA from August 1932 is also DARKER than the $20's pictured above. 
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Samfink
The $10 and the $5 are also true LGS. The $20 is transitional, and the $5 is DGS.

Jim: Take a look at the link I provided in my prior post to this one. My $10 is markedly darker than the $20 printed before it in one of the posts in that link. 

The real question is why and how can / are the $20 > notes LGS a month before the $5 and $10 ???? Ã°Å¸ËœÂ³

I owned a $20 1928B From July 09, 1932 that was a DGS, but is was really close. 


I was told the 10 and the 5 are a variation 
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EarlySmallSizeFanatic
Samfink: Your $5 and $10 were printed in 1936, a year + before the seal color change in November of 1937. 

On the $5's, there are no transitional seals because there were no $5 printings between May 20, 1937 and July 10, 1941. Only Atlanta, Dallas, and San Francisco printed $5's in 1937. Only Boston, New York, and Cleveland printed $5's in 1941. 

Here is a note printed around the same time as your $5 and $10:

1934 L star LGS $10.jpg 
The most vivid seals were in 1933 to 1935. Notes printed in 1936 and the first half of 1937 are less vivid, but not transitional. 

There are three shades of true LGS that I am aware of. The notes in November 1934 have a deeper tint than the other notes of this era. Second shade is the classic vivid yellow green of 1933 to 1935. The 1936 to mid 1937 printings are still true LGS, but less appealing than earlier versions. The last shade of LGS is the transitional shade used from July to October 1937. 

There are variations of DGS notes in both 1928 and 1934 as well. 
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EarlySmallSizeFanatic
Here is another flub up by PMG

https://currency.ha.com/itm/federal-reserve-notes/fr-2005-g-10-1934-dark-green-seal-federal-reserve-note-pmg-about-uncirculated-55/a/142027-81422.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

High serial for these is G00456000* with G00456001* to G00468000* transitional (first DGS). 
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Samfink
Heads up.. I emailed the bep for their records process and was responded to very quickly but more of a what do you want? I asked the ink question and probably will never hear back from them now lol
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EarlySmallSizeFanatic
Now to the question at hand! Is there or can there be such thing as an inking mule note. As such the ink supplied for a previous year series was used in a later series and vice versa? I know the debate for LGS and DGS designation goes very deep. But ultimately can there be such a thing? AND why isn't it recognized just as the mule is recognized?

Yes and no: 

The 1928, 1928A, and 1928B series at one point were printed simultaneously. 

IMG_0037-2.jpg

The 1928B C star DGS was printed in March of 1930, before switching back to 1928A in the next batch. 

There are threads on the seal color changes. The thing is: Back in the day, plates were used until they wore out, regardless of what series was most recent. 


In September of 1932, leftover $10 1928 FRN sheets were found un-numbered and ended up producing a batch of H star LGS. So in September of 1932, we had: 1928 and 1928B FRN's. 

Now the real kicker: By the end of 1934, here is what was being printed: $1 SC: 1928A, B, C, D, and E, and 1934. $2 1928C USN, $5 1928B USN, FRN's: 1928B (lgs), 1928C, 1928D, and 1934 ! In 1934 a $1 SC was even numbered with serial numbers from the 1928 series !

In 1946 FRN's were 1934 (DGS mules for certain districts), 1934A, and 1934B, the later in the year, 1934C ! 

The only ink colors were (for FRN's) 

Forest green (1928 to 1928B)
A lighter forest green 
Transitional green (1928B)
Early yellow green (1928B, C, and leftover 1928 stars)
Vivid yellow green (1928 series (B, C, and D) to 1934 change)
Yellow green (1934)
Transitional yellow green (1934)
Vivid blue green (1934 / 1934A)
Dull blue green (1934 / A) from late 1939 to 1942
A darker dull blue green (1934/A, B, C) 1943 to 1949 or 50)
Back to dull blue green during the 1934D series. 

Here is a video from the 1950's showing the ink being fed into the presses. 


 
I hope this clears things up for you. 

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Samfink
I dont know what took me so long to see this but what a great video! Thanks for sharing.
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