Mystery souvenir cards

MaineJoe Expert Collector 1,301 posts

MaineJoe 1553777773

Neat Greg! I have seem a few of those pass by on eBay, go figure, right?

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GregAlex Expert Collector 2,015 posts

GregAlex 1553805294

MaineJoe wrote:

Neat Greg! I have seem a few of those pass by on eBay, go figure, right?

Yes, you have! I don't often bid on them, but if the image is high res, I will download it for possible inclusion on the SCCS website. These are often quite rare, so it's important to document them. If anyone comes across early forerunners like this, please PM me.

And now here are some more current mysteries that have yet to be cataloged.

Not sure if this one is engraved or not:

This one was cut down from SO-37 and repurposed for an SPMC banquet. We are working out how to catalog modified card varieties like this.

This one certainly looks intaglio -- it appears to have a die impression around the stamps. And there's even a USPS authorization at the bottom. But I've never seen it before.

The Christmas Seal Society overprinted a number of different intaglio prints that I think were originally printed by Mike Bean on his spider press. We have to sort out what category these belong to.

And then there's this interesting piece. Apparently the ASDA had triptych cards specially printed by American Bank Note for their Man of the Year banquets. I know of at least one more of these from a different year, also with an ABNC vignette. It's definitely a souvenir -- does that make it a semi-official card?

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CurrencyDen1 Collector 423 posts

CurrencyDen1 1554156178

The Centennial Dwight Comp has a twin from Great Falls Co instead. Both these large notes (212x241 mm) are valued at $400 in The Catalog of Printers' Test notes.

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GregAlex Expert Collector 2,015 posts

GregAlex 1554158525 · Edited

CurrencyDen1 wrote:

The Centennial Dwight Comp has a twin from Great Falls Co instead. Both these large notes (212x241 mm) are valued at $400 in The Catalog of Printers' Test notes.

Here's an example -- and I believe there is a third variety, but I don't recall the name of the company.

I've been wondering about these cards. I always thought they were souvenirs from the 1876 Centennial Exhibition. But recently saw one described in an auction catalog as a "fabric label" - maybe something that was attached to large rolls. If Centennial was a brand name, then these don't actually qualify as souvenir cards or test notes. More research is in order.

EDIT: Just found this on Ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GREAT-FALLS-CO-1876-CENTENNIAL-FABRIC-BOLT-LABEL-ILLUS-PRESIDENTS-/372531510192

and this...

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1876-dwight-co-centennial-advertising-200191809

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bkzoopapa Senior Member 79 posts

bkzoopapa 1556767431

The Collectors Club of Chicago is an interesting place. Great old 4 story brownstone in Chicago’s Gold Coast. The club in open to stamp collectors by invitation only. Has a huge Philatelic library. Informal meetings are held monthly. I was was invited to give a talk on Encased Postage back in the 1980’s to the group of mostly high end stamp collectors. Careen was a prolific philatelic writer and had a stamp column in the Chicago Tribune for over 35 years, gave his house for a permanent home to the club. It’s on the Historic Register now.

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GregAlex Expert Collector 2,015 posts

GregAlex 1556776175 · Edited

I would love to visit that place! And I'll be in Chicago in August. So I just need to see if I can finagle in invite. I'm actually an officer of the Northwest Philatelic Library in Portland, so that might be a good way to connect.

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mikelaw Expert Collector 2,137 posts

mikelaw 1556823434

Good stuff Greg. Love the 1876 centennial cards. A Trevose dealer had sesquicentennial ephemera items from Philly and Chicago at very reasonable prices..$20. Will try to pickup next month and share. Very cool. Keep posting. Link and photo:

https://philadelphiaencyclopedia.org/archive/sesquicentennial-international-exposition/

FFA75EF9-5339-4551-BF8B-37909DA6AA09.jpeg 384.44 KB · 72 views

Mike

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GregAlex Expert Collector 2,015 posts

GregAlex 1556825959 · Edited

We have managed to assign a couple numbers...

This will be F-1994A (1994 MANA “Old Capitol”)

And this is now SO-37(a). All of the repurposed cards (cut-down and/or overprinted) will be given small letter suffixes as varieties.

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Berny Collector 386 posts

Berny 1557033584 · Edited

GregAlex wrote:

And this is now SO-37(a). All of the repurposed cards (cut-down and/or overprinted) will be given small letter suffixes as varieties.

I sure hope that the "cut-down" cards by dealers, and subsequently TPG'ed will not receive SCCS approval by listing them on the website or elsewhere with their own variety number!? This would encourage further destruction of SC's since they tend to sell at many times their true cost and value.

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GregAlex Expert Collector 2,015 posts

GregAlex 1557042064 · Edited

Oh no -- no worries there. In this circumstance "repurposed" is the operative word, rather than "cut-down." For a better explanation, let's step into the WayBack Machine…

In the 1980s, when ABNC first started producing souvenir cards, they printed them on contract for various organizations like the ANA and the SPMC. So the ANA would take delivery, then sell them at their major shows. They had to guess at how many they could sell and initially they weren't very good at it. With SO-12 (ANA 1980), for instance, they ordered 19,000, but sold less than 8,000. This happened fairly often and after a number of years they were sitting on a stockpile of thousands of unsold cards.

Around 1989 someone hit on the idea that they could just trim off the dated portion of the cards, then add some new text on the back and recycle them as giveaway items. They started out doing this for visitors at the ANA Museum in Colorado Springs, then began giving them out at coin shows to promote upcoming ANA conventions. Other groups caught on and did the same thing with their own surplus cards.

The first two times this occurred, the SCCS gave these repurposed cards their own catalog numbers (SO-64 and SO-73). But soon after they reversed that decision and have since ignored these cards altogether -- until we came up with a solution earlier this year to treat them as varieties with "sub-numbers." We will be relisting SO-64 and SO-73 as SO-34(a) and SO-12(a), respectively.

There are probably a couple dozen of these repurposed cards, mostly from the ANA. I thought they had run out by the early 2000s, but was surprised to see one pop up in 2017. I'll post a few examples. All of these will become varieties of the original cards.

As far as cataloging these, we are only concerned with cards that have been cut down by the issuing entity. Dealers who trim down cards for their own purposes won't be getting anything from the SCCS, except perhaps a sniff of disdain.

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CurrencyDen1 Collector 423 posts

CurrencyDen1 1559622197

I believe this has Casilear printed at the bottom.

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GregAlex Expert Collector 2,015 posts

GregAlex 1559804585 · Edited

Good eyes, Roland! I've had the Centennial Share reprint hanging on my office wall for many years, but I never noticed that. George Casilear was one of the BEP's first engravers and went on to become Superintendent of Engraving from 1889 to 1894, according to "The Engraver's Line." Here's a close-up, so everyone can see what we're talking about.

This creates another mystery, though -- the Centennial Share certificate was produced for the 1876 Centennial International Exhibition, supposedly 13 years *before* Casilear was named superintendent.

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GregAlex Expert Collector 2,015 posts

GregAlex 1572987721 · Edited

I went back through the first first scans I posted here and a great many have now been given catalog numbers. Look for those coming soon in the SCCS Image Gallery.

Now here are some that are even more mysterious. These are all likely candidates for the forerunner section, and all of them appear to be engraved ... but -- none of them have printer attributions. Without that, we can't definitively say that they were produced by security printing companies (currency, stocks, stamps, etc.), which is a requirement to be included in the catalog. Take a look -- maybe new information will surface. The last one is quite interesting to me. I think if we can match the Brooklyn Bridge vignette somewhere else, then we can pin down the security printer.

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mikelaw Expert Collector 2,137 posts

mikelaw 1572989298

Wow. Where do find these ? The President Taylor and Columbia Exposition are my favorites. Good luck with the bridge. Nice.

Mike

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Berny Collector 386 posts

Berny 1572991752

Regarding the Brooklyn Bridge vignette on the Centennial certificate:
Here is a stock certificate for The Brooklyn National Bank of New York (1932) engraved by the Security Bank Note Co of Philadelphia.

The vignette also appeared on the 1993 American Commemoratives panel for Dorothy Parker. I think these panels were done by the ABNC?

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GregAlex Expert Collector 2,015 posts

GregAlex 1572995178 · Edited

Ding, ding -- we have a winner! That hardly took any time -- thanks Bernie. Yes, that's definitely a match for the Brooklyn Bridge vignette -- which means that in 1983 the certificate would have been produced by Security-Columbian Bank Note Co. Some time in the early '80s the company changed its name to the United States BNC and that could have been in place by then.

Fyi, in 1992 when that Dorothy Parker Commemorative Panel was released, USBNC would have been producing the panels for the USPS. ABNC printed most of the panels, then in 1985 the Jeffries Bank Note Co. underbid them for the contract. Jeffries did a terrible job for several years, but then the company was purchased by USBNC in 1989 and the quality improved. USBNC bought ABNC in 1990 and after that vignettes on Commemorative Panels can be found from all the various banknote companies.

Mike, many of the mystery cards are from the collection of a long-time collector (Brooklyn, on the forum) and others I've found on Ebay. The Brooklyn Bridge certificate belongs to DonEinNY.

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DonEinNY Senior Member 73 posts

DonEinNY 1573080294

Thanks for the info on the Brooklyn Bridge certificate, Greg and Bernie. I like the Brooklyn National Bank stock certificate and the Columbian Expo certificate.

I looked through the Commissioner of Patents Report for 1849, available online, and the Zachary Taylor memorial card was not inserted. I think the key is to find an Office copy of the report to see if it contains any more information.

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GregAlex Expert Collector 2,015 posts

GregAlex 1575443082

FYI, there's a Brooklyn Bridge vignette currently on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/United-States-Bank-Note-Co-Bridging-Open-Water-Intaglio-Vignette-Reprint-1900s-/202840123064?nav=SEARCH

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Berny Collector 386 posts

Berny 1575473464 · Edited

GregAlex wrote:

FYI, there's a Brooklyn Bridge vignette currently on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/United-States-Bank-Note-Co-Bridging-Open-Water-Intaglio-Vignette-Reprint-1900s-/202840123064?nav=SEARCH

This one actually looks like a die vignette proof, although the quality of the impression seems to be quite poor.

Sometimes, the vignette is not really a proof but is cut from the American Commemoratives panels like this one. It is usually easy to distinguish these when the corners are cut off. Also, they are printed on card stock used for the panels and not on India paper.

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GregAlex Expert Collector 2,015 posts

GregAlex 1575499920

Your post jogged my memory and I had to dig through a different part of my collection. For the banquet of the 1987 plate printers convention, the U.S. Banknote Company distributed a folder of six "compliments" cards, including four oversized sheets (11"x14"). The large sheets featured separate themes of bridges, Native Americans, ocean vessels, and harvest scenes. Below is F-1987H(c) -- this one has two engravings of the Brooklyn Bridge, including the one in question. And I notice the eBay seller has vignettes of most of the others on this sheet, so I have to assume these were all cut out. This is quite unfortunate, as only 200 of these sheets were printed.

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Berny Collector 386 posts

Berny 1575503734

GregAlex wrote:

Your post jogged my memory and I had to dig through a different part of my collection. For the banquet of the 1987 plate printers convention, the U.S. Banknote Company distributed a folder of six "compliments" cards, including four oversized sheets (11"x14"). The large sheets featured separate themes of bridges, Native Americans, ocean vessels, and harvest scenes. Below is F-1987H(c) -- this one has two engravings of the Brooklyn Bridge, including the one in question. And I notice the eBay seller has vignettes of most of the others on this sheet, so I have to assume these were all cut out. This is quite unfortunate, as only 200 of these sheets were printed.

Well, it really only has one vignette of the Brooklyn Bridge. The upper central vignette is of the Cincinnati Bridge. It was also built by Roebling. The towers were started before the Civil War. The bridge was not completed until after the war.

I don't recall where this vignette was used. Any help?

It is really a shame how these souvenir cards are being dismembered!

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GregAlex Expert Collector 2,015 posts

GregAlex 1575504843

Ah ha! Thanks for the correction Bernie. I do see now that it is a different bridge, but with many similarities. I wish USBNC had included an info sheet with usages for these vignettes, but apparently they were more interested in just showing off the artistry itself.

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DonEinNY Senior Member 73 posts

DonEinNY 1575510833

GregAlex wrote:

Your post jogged my memory and I had to dig through a different part of my collection. For the banquet of the 1987 plate printers convention, the U.S. Banknote Company distributed a folder of six "compliments" cards, including four oversized sheets (11"x14"). The large sheets featured separate themes of bridges, Native Americans, ocean vessels, and harvest scenes. Below is F-1987H(c) -- this one has two engravings of the Brooklyn Bridge, including the one in question. And I notice the eBay seller has vignettes of most of the others on this sheet, so I have to assume these were all cut out. This is quite unfortunate, as only 200 of these sheets were printed.

I agree it's too bad these are being cut down. I would certainly be a bidder on a full set of the sheets or even each sheet individually. I have only seen a full set being offered for sale once and was outbid.

Greg, are these going to be posted to the SCCS website?

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GregAlex Expert Collector 2,015 posts

GregAlex 1575513033 · Edited

The short answer is yes...eventually. There are actually far more Union cards than any other category, and more are regularly discovered. Because these are listed in year order (F-1978A, etc.) it is more cumbersome to have to change the gallery, since additional cards don't just get tacked on at the end of the list. But it will happen. In the meantime, I will post some here on the forum.

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